Έτσι λοιπόν τις προάλλες, την ώρα που βαριόμουνα, βρέθηκα να ψάχνω στο internet το πως βλέπει ο υπόλοιπος κόσμος της Ευρώπης την οικονομική κατάσταση της Ελλάδας. Δεν άργησα λοιπόν να πέσω σε μία ανάρτηση στο facebook με τίτλο "Greeks are the greatest thieves in history", η οποία συντάχθηκε από τον κύριο Ertuğrul Dikbaş.
Ο κύριος Ertuğrul Dikbaş είναι ένας χαμογελάστός πενηνταπεντάρης κύριος με αφράτα μαγουλάκια και χαρακτηριστική καράφλα. Είναι κάτοικος Κωνσταντινούπολης, γνωρίζει 5 γλώσσες, ασχολείται επαγγελματικά με τη μουσική και είναι απόφοιτος πανεπιστημίου (σύμφωνα με το προφίλ του στο facebook). Ο κύριος Ertuğrul Dikbaş γράφει λοιπόν στην ανάρτησή του:Ertuğrul Dikbaş:
Greeks have stolen their alphabet from Phoenicians, philosophy from Egyptians, money from Lydians, musical scale from Lycians, state order from Persians...What they took from Turks is as follows: there are about 5000 Turkish words in Greek language. Bouzouki is a copy of saz. Almost all 'Greek' meals are Turkish, for example, keftedes, sucukakia, dolmades, tzatsiki, taramosalatas, halvas, baklavas, yalancı dolma, kavourma ellinika etc.Also they want to steal Turkish coffee, raki, Karagöz-Hacivat...The greeks don't produce even a pen. They live by maritime cargo business and tourism. And they live by the EU-fonds, which they cheat sometimes.
They are lazy thieves. Disgusting people indeed.
They don't respect the rights of the Turkish community in West-Thrace. They hate foreigners among them, like Albanians. They throw illegal immigrants into the Aegean sea. And they want to champion the western civilization.
They are a shame for humanity on earth.
---
Μόλις διάβασα το παραπάνω κείμενο λοιπόν, σκέφτηκα πως θα έχει πολύ ενδιαφέρον να ζωρίσω και κάποιον μη Έλληνα, αφού σίγουρα δε θα σκεφτεί να με κατηγορήσει ως αναρχικό ή κομμουνιστή όπως κάνουν οι Ελληνάρες που κράζω συνήθως. Θα μου πείτε τώρα: "Και γιατί διάλεξες αυτόν; Τόσες αναρτήσεις υπάρχουν παρόμοιες σαν και αυτή." Η απάντηση είναι ότι μόλις είχα τερματίσει ένα campaign στο Shogun 2 Total War για τρίτη φορά και βαριόμουνα οικτρά. Επιπλέον το προφίλ του κυρίου Ertuğrul μου κέντρισε το ενδιαφέρον πιστεύοντας ότι ίσως εμπλακώ σε κάποιο είδος συζήτησης αναβαθμισμένου επιπέδου σε σχέση με άλλους που κάνω.... αλλά όπως θα δείτε και στη συνέχεια, το ενδιαφέρον ήταν αλλού.
Αμέσως λοιπόν του έστειλα ένα friend request για αρχή το οποίο και δέχτηκε σε δευτερόλεπτα. Την επομένη, αφού ψαχούλεψα λίγο τη σελίδα του ξεκίνησα τον διάλογο τον οποίο και σας παρουσιάζω παρακάτω:
Dear Mr Ertuğrul
My name is Yiorgos and I am from Greece. I am sure that you are aware of the financial crisis that my country has gotten into. Yesterday, while I was browsing through the internet, just to check out of curiosity how do other people see the recession in Greece, I bumped into a post of yours stating that Greeks are the greatest thieves and that keftedes and mpouzouki are not Greek along with the alphabet and some other stuff which I can’t recall right now.
The reason I am writing you this letter is not to tell you that you are wrong or to swear at you as others did in your post. I am just surprised of reading such an awful hate-post from a (judging from your profile) quite educated person. Usually, racists and nationalists in Greece are people with a low educational level and are more close to what someone would call “a baboon”! Since I have made some very good Turkish friends, I am inclined to believe that the same applies to Turkish nationalists. So, with all due respect Mr Ertuğrul, I’m asking you: Are you a “baboon”?
You see Mr Ertuğrul, when you give to a whole group a specific characterization in public, then it means that you know every single individual of this group. So, calling Greeks “disgusting thieves” means that all 11 million of Greeks are disgusting thieves, including myself, my parents and every other Greek that I know. I believe that you are able to understand how irresponsible your statement is (unless you are a baboon – which I don’t think is true). As for the food, the music and the other things that you state Greeks have stolen, let me remind you that culture is something exchangeable. I could analyze to you right now what Greeks have NOT “stolen” from others but I really don’t care. To my mind, tradition is of much less importance compared to other traits. After all, “keftedes” is just food to me and I prefer them rapped in “Arabic” bread along with some “French” fries and an “American” diet-coke.
To end my letter, let me tell you that hate-posts such as yours can cause only one reaction. And that is the escalation of racism in both countries. Greeks have quite a history in racism - not only against Turkish but also against other people too. Turkey has a history drown in blood with countless wars against Arabs and Europeans as well. So, even if you have the age of my father, allow me to give you a piece of advice: “Use freedom of speech wisely. Otherwise, one day, we all may lose it.”
Saygılar
Yiorgos
---My name is Yiorgos and I am from Greece. I am sure that you are aware of the financial crisis that my country has gotten into. Yesterday, while I was browsing through the internet, just to check out of curiosity how do other people see the recession in Greece, I bumped into a post of yours stating that Greeks are the greatest thieves and that keftedes and mpouzouki are not Greek along with the alphabet and some other stuff which I can’t recall right now.
The reason I am writing you this letter is not to tell you that you are wrong or to swear at you as others did in your post. I am just surprised of reading such an awful hate-post from a (judging from your profile) quite educated person. Usually, racists and nationalists in Greece are people with a low educational level and are more close to what someone would call “a baboon”! Since I have made some very good Turkish friends, I am inclined to believe that the same applies to Turkish nationalists. So, with all due respect Mr Ertuğrul, I’m asking you: Are you a “baboon”?
You see Mr Ertuğrul, when you give to a whole group a specific characterization in public, then it means that you know every single individual of this group. So, calling Greeks “disgusting thieves” means that all 11 million of Greeks are disgusting thieves, including myself, my parents and every other Greek that I know. I believe that you are able to understand how irresponsible your statement is (unless you are a baboon – which I don’t think is true). As for the food, the music and the other things that you state Greeks have stolen, let me remind you that culture is something exchangeable. I could analyze to you right now what Greeks have NOT “stolen” from others but I really don’t care. To my mind, tradition is of much less importance compared to other traits. After all, “keftedes” is just food to me and I prefer them rapped in “Arabic” bread along with some “French” fries and an “American” diet-coke.
To end my letter, let me tell you that hate-posts such as yours can cause only one reaction. And that is the escalation of racism in both countries. Greeks have quite a history in racism - not only against Turkish but also against other people too. Turkey has a history drown in blood with countless wars against Arabs and Europeans as well. So, even if you have the age of my father, allow me to give you a piece of advice: “Use freedom of speech wisely. Otherwise, one day, we all may lose it.”
Saygılar
Yiorgos
Ertuğrul Dikbaş 16 Ιουνίου στις 9:14 μ.μ.
Hi dear Mr. Yorgo,
The text, which I am the author, reflects only the facts. No emotions in it. You also don't try to deny the correctness of the facts and their being historically true. As we speak, I can feel the impact of the Ottoman era on you as a greek, just as I feel this impact on every greek person I meet...yes we are like the two children of one single father. I perceive this similarity NOT as something negative. On the contrary, it makes me a little happy to see, that we Turks have a similar people next to our door.
In the last months I have met two greek persons here in İstanbul. With one we discussed the conditions in which Greece is in nowadays. In fact I am not an enemy of the greek people and want as soon as possible, that the crisis ends in a good fashion. I sincerely pity the greek people. But my true perspective is that: Greece should end this parasiterism and build a real industry and export and don't say :only watches and fools work'.
So, you should take my text as a scientific analysis and as a slam on your face. Truth is sometimes hard. Leave your emotions aside and study the history. We say in Turkish: only a friend says the bitter truth.
Gia.
Ertuğru
---
frontman 16 Ιουνίου στις 11:19 μ.μ.
Hello again Mr Ertuğrul
I am glad you replied my message. To begin with, I don’t try to deny the facts you present because I do NOT care of the origin of “sucukakia”, “dolmades” and “taramosalata”!!!
However, allow me to disagree with you on what you call plain “reflection of facts”. In your text, among others, you quote “They are lazy thieves. Disgusting people indeed.” So if you think that this can pose a historical fact and not an emotional engagement then we have a fundamental dispute on how we understand the principle of History. So I can’t accept your text as a “scientific analysis”. It is a vulgar hate-post like many others I have read before - posted by Turkish and Greeks alike.
My point here is NOT the facts of what was “stolen” (even the word “stolen” is emotional). It is the hate that is produced deliberately by politicians or unwittingly by ignorant people like you.
On the other hand, if you insist on talking about historical facts and politics (without characterizations like “disgusting people” etc) you should know that most Greeks (not the ones that are used to reply to your hate-posts) are aware of what was inherited in our culture by the Ottoman era. And yes, included sucukakia, baklavas and other… food. However, you are completely unfair (or misguided) when you say that nothing is founded by Greeks. I will not engage myself in a history lesson.
Another misapprehension is that Greeks do not produce or even work! There is indeed a parasitism, especially in the public sector and that is one of the primal reasons that led Greece to bankruptcy. There is a very clear political explanation for that. And that would be “corruption”! The same corruption that characterizes many other countries in the world (including yours). So, if you think that because of the corrupted politicians I am not productive then you are once again just unfair. On the contrary, most employees in Greece working in the private sector do overtime without getting paid. It is not your duty to be aware of what is happening in Greece, but please don’t tell me that “only watches and fools work” is a common practice! Whoever told you that is either a fool or a.. watch…!
In your “scientific analyses” you also refer to Western Thrace, stating that Greeks don't respect the rights of the Turkish community. While I was doing my military service I didn’t see any discriminating behavior against the Muslims inside or outside the camp. On the contrary I would say. However, I know that things were different fifteen years ago. In addition, I was glad when a Greek friend of mine who lives in Istanbul told me the last time I paid him a visit, that Romioi in Turkey live in harmony with the Turkish. This is what is called progress. This is what people need. Not infuriating “scientific slams in the face” as you call it! History is good to study. Not to compete on who possesses the greatest civilization or culture but in order not to repeat the mistakes of the past. In both of our nations’ history there have been many mistakes that have ended in bloodbaths.
In Greece we say: Half the truth is worse than a lie.
Regards
Yiorgos
The text, which I am the author, reflects only the facts. No emotions in it. You also don't try to deny the correctness of the facts and their being historically true. As we speak, I can feel the impact of the Ottoman era on you as a greek, just as I feel this impact on every greek person I meet...yes we are like the two children of one single father. I perceive this similarity NOT as something negative. On the contrary, it makes me a little happy to see, that we Turks have a similar people next to our door.
In the last months I have met two greek persons here in İstanbul. With one we discussed the conditions in which Greece is in nowadays. In fact I am not an enemy of the greek people and want as soon as possible, that the crisis ends in a good fashion. I sincerely pity the greek people. But my true perspective is that: Greece should end this parasiterism and build a real industry and export and don't say :only watches and fools work'.
So, you should take my text as a scientific analysis and as a slam on your face. Truth is sometimes hard. Leave your emotions aside and study the history. We say in Turkish: only a friend says the bitter truth.
Gia.
Ertuğru
---
frontman 16 Ιουνίου στις 11:19 μ.μ.
Hello again Mr Ertuğrul
I am glad you replied my message. To begin with, I don’t try to deny the facts you present because I do NOT care of the origin of “sucukakia”, “dolmades” and “taramosalata”!!!
However, allow me to disagree with you on what you call plain “reflection of facts”. In your text, among others, you quote “They are lazy thieves. Disgusting people indeed.” So if you think that this can pose a historical fact and not an emotional engagement then we have a fundamental dispute on how we understand the principle of History. So I can’t accept your text as a “scientific analysis”. It is a vulgar hate-post like many others I have read before - posted by Turkish and Greeks alike.
My point here is NOT the facts of what was “stolen” (even the word “stolen” is emotional). It is the hate that is produced deliberately by politicians or unwittingly by ignorant people like you.
On the other hand, if you insist on talking about historical facts and politics (without characterizations like “disgusting people” etc) you should know that most Greeks (not the ones that are used to reply to your hate-posts) are aware of what was inherited in our culture by the Ottoman era. And yes, included sucukakia, baklavas and other… food. However, you are completely unfair (or misguided) when you say that nothing is founded by Greeks. I will not engage myself in a history lesson.
Another misapprehension is that Greeks do not produce or even work! There is indeed a parasitism, especially in the public sector and that is one of the primal reasons that led Greece to bankruptcy. There is a very clear political explanation for that. And that would be “corruption”! The same corruption that characterizes many other countries in the world (including yours). So, if you think that because of the corrupted politicians I am not productive then you are once again just unfair. On the contrary, most employees in Greece working in the private sector do overtime without getting paid. It is not your duty to be aware of what is happening in Greece, but please don’t tell me that “only watches and fools work” is a common practice! Whoever told you that is either a fool or a.. watch…!
In your “scientific analyses” you also refer to Western Thrace, stating that Greeks don't respect the rights of the Turkish community. While I was doing my military service I didn’t see any discriminating behavior against the Muslims inside or outside the camp. On the contrary I would say. However, I know that things were different fifteen years ago. In addition, I was glad when a Greek friend of mine who lives in Istanbul told me the last time I paid him a visit, that Romioi in Turkey live in harmony with the Turkish. This is what is called progress. This is what people need. Not infuriating “scientific slams in the face” as you call it! History is good to study. Not to compete on who possesses the greatest civilization or culture but in order not to repeat the mistakes of the past. In both of our nations’ history there have been many mistakes that have ended in bloodbaths.
In Greece we say: Half the truth is worse than a lie.
Regards
Yiorgos
Προς μεγάλη μου απογοήτευση, αν και διάβασε σχεδόν αμέσως την ανταπάντησή μου, δε μου απάντησε ποτέ (το σιχαίνομαι όταν το κάνουν αυτό). Αποφάσισα να περιμένω λίγες μερούλες για δω αν θα απαντήσει αλλά μάταια. Τελικά, κάποια στιγμή του έστειλα:
frontman 19 Ιουνίου στις 12:38 μ.μ.
I hope you learned something the other day :)
---
Λίγο μετά είδα ότι ο κύριος Ertuğrul, έκανε "αναφορά" τη συζήτησή μας, με διέγραψε από φίλο του ενώ έκανε και block το λογαριασμό μου! Αμέσως έκανε link στο μυαλό μου η ιστορία που είχε γίνει πριν κανα δυο-τρία χρόνια με την Τουρκία που είχε απαγορεύσει ολόκληρο το youtube από τους ISPs της γιατί υπήρχαν εκεί μέσα βιντέκια από Ελληνάρες που έλεγαν ότι ο Mustafa Kemal Atatürk ήταν πούστης και τον έπαιρνε απ'το κώλο! Παρόλλα αυτά, ίσως να γίνομαι λίγο άδικος συνδέοντας τον κύριο Ertuğrul με την ιστορία αυτή και ταυτόχρονα σας θυμίζω την παρωδία-παρεξήγηση με τον Τατσόπουλο που είχε γράψει στο facebook ότι ο Κολοκοτρώνης ήταν αρραβωνιάσμενος με άντρα και που για να μην το φάνε λάχανο βγήκε σε όλες τις εκπομπές του ΣΚΑΪ για να πει ότι έκανε πλακίτσα. Είναι ολοφάνερο λοιπόν, ότι το τελευταίο όπλο (το ulti) που θα χρησιμοποιήσει ο βλάκας είναι ο σκασμός (silence). Για αυτό λοιπόν και η βλακεία είναι ανίκητη. Αλλά όχι ότι δε το γνωρίζατε βέβαια... :)
3 σχόλια:
τον στενοχώρησες τον άνθρωπο...
Χα! Η καρδούλα του το ξέρει!
τι κατεβατό είναι αυτό που του έγραψες στο τέλος. λογικό να μη σου απαντήσει σε όλα αυτά μιας και είναι μπαμπουίνος (πέθανα στο γέλιο όταν το διάβασα αυτό)
έπρεπε να του αναφέρεις και συ για το καστελόριζο που προσπαθούν να βγάλουν από έξω για να κλέψουν τα υδάτινα χωρικά ύδατα με σκοπό να πάρουν το πετρέλαιο.
άσε ρε τους μπαμπουίνους που κοιμούνται στις ταράτσες και απειδή αλλάζουν πλευρό πέφτουν και σκοτώνονται. τι να λέμε τώρα.
Δημοσίευση σχολίου